Any options to high monthly cell/pda bills?

doofy · Joined: 07 Feb 2008 Posts: 3

Sorry, this is a sort of generalist query, but I don't see any other
places to ask on the newsgroups.

I don't talk on the phone much, but like the ability to use a pda, gps,
view traffic patterns, etc.

Are there inexpensive plans where I can get web access on a pda, and not
pay phone plans? And get decent coverage? I'm not sure Wi-Fi access is
going to cut it when traveling the highways.

I'd like Windows Mobile OS so I can do some of my own development.

I guess I could just get a gps for the car, and not have to pay monthly
fees, but don't know if that will give me traffic patterns.

Archived from group: microsoft>public>pocketpc

Todd Allcock · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1029

At 06 Feb 2008 19:17:21 -0800 doofy wrote:

> I don't talk on the phone much, but like the ability to use a pda, gps,
> view traffic patterns, etc.
>
> Are there inexpensive plans where I can get web access on a pda,
> and not pay phone plans?

Telling us what country you're in might help, but I'll assume US, because
that's the one I live in and am familiar with.

Data-only plans? Yes. Inexpensive? No.

Most, if not all, US carriers will sell data-only plans for PDA devices,
but they run $50-80/month depending on carrier.

AT&T offers prepaid data, but it's $10/MB, and one good cross-town trip
with Google Maps or Windows Live Search can use a megabyte!

Ironically, voice service with unlimited data added on is often no more
expensive than data alone. T-Mobile, for example, sells standalone data
for $50, but sells a 300 voice minutes/month for $30, with unlimited data
$20 extra!

> And get decent coverage? I'm not sure Wi-Fi access is going to cut
> it when traveling the highways.

I'm sure; it won't!

> I guess I could just get a gps for the car, and not have to pay monthly
fees, but don't know if that will give me traffic patterns.

Many do. I bought my wife a Navizon 2100 car GPS unit from Staples on
"Black Friday" for $100 that receives traffic wirelessly for free.

DevilsPGD · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

In message doofy
wrote:

>Sorry, this is a sort of generalist query, but I don't see any other
>places to ask on the newsgroups.
>
>I don't talk on the phone much, but like the ability to use a pda, gps,
>view traffic patterns, etc.
>
>Are there inexpensive plans where I can get web access on a pda, and not
>pay phone plans? And get decent coverage? I'm not sure Wi-Fi access is
>going to cut it when traveling the highways.
>
>I'd like Windows Mobile OS so I can do some of my own development.
>
>I guess I could just get a gps for the car, and not have to pay monthly
>fees, but don't know if that will give me traffic patterns.

It really depends on where you live. In Canada, you walk into any
Rogers dealer and ask for data-only service. The base fee is $10/month,
plus $6.95 system access fee, and $0.35 E911 fee.

If you ask nicely, the $10/month fee will be waved.

Now you add a data plan (starting at $25/month for an extremely small
amount of data, going up to 5GB for $100/month)

Voice calls are $1/minute, text is free to receive and $0.15/msg to
send.

In the US, I believe T-Mobile offers something similar (or did, last
time I investigated. The price was too rich for me, due to the fact
that I only spend about 12 weeks a year in the US)

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

>> I don't talk on the phone much, but like the ability to use a pda,
gps, view traffic patterns, etc. <<

While the data plan options are few and expensive, for you it might be
worth it to, before the fact, spend a little bit of time to refine the
data access using a pc to drill down to what you need, then create
shortcuts or simple html pages to go directly there rather than paying
for advertisements and page fluff.

An example of this is a page I put together to allow me (and anyone
who's interested) to go directly to noaa weather radar images and bypass
a large amount of unneeded "stuff" http://bevhoward.com/storm/ppcrad.htm

When I was commuting, I was also partially successful in doing the same
for the traffic camera images, but, if nothing else, you can set up
favorites to get as close as possible using favorites or a local page in
the ppc's memory.

The above steps can greatly reduce data costs for anyone not on an
unlimited data plan... one example was snagging a weather radar image of
our location during a horrendous storm allowing us to know that we we
could get out of it quickly... 35 cents... but at the time $35 would
have been acceptable.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

addendum;

fwiw, I'm on the $10mb (rate plan shows it as 1cent/kb)

Some things I do to make using this acceptable;

use wifi whenever available

In addition to a working gprs connection, set up a bogus gprs connection
as the default to prevent autonomous connects... see;
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc.phone_edition/browse_thread/thread/3596237d041ca095/f2c5ab8701d2d336?lnk=st&q=%22How+to+disable+GPRS+automatic+connect%3F%22+group%3Amicrosoft.public.pocketpc.phone_edition&rnum=1&hl=en#f2c5ab8701d2d336
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.pocketpc/browse_thread/thread/3b59455db5709edc/1aabf9570420dc82?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#1aabf9570420dc82

You can use the valid gprs connection by selecting it manually by
tap/hold in the connection list or look for the possibility in your
device's "connection manager" if it has one.

When mobile and using gprs;

Set home page to about:blank or local file

know what pages auto refresh and either avoid them, or move off of those
pages when finished.

don't hesitate to use the stop button.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Todd Allcock · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1029

At 07 Feb 2008 22:02:32 -0600 Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
> addendum;
>
> fwiw, I'm on the $10mb (rate plan shows it as 1cent/kb)
> entertainment/faq.jsp#pricing>

Just curious, Bev, are you using a PPC phone, or tethering a PPC to a phone
via IR or BT?. AT&T just dropped unlimited data on "dumbphones" to
$15/month, but wants $30 if it's a "smartphone." An interesting policy to
have two different rates for "unlimited." It'd be like charging fat guys
(like me) double at buffet restaurants!

> Some things I do to make using this acceptable;
>
> use wifi whenever available
>
> In addition to a working gprs connection, set up a bogus gprs connection
> as the default to prevent autonomous connects...

> You can use the valid gprs connection by selecting it manually by
> tap/hold in the connection list or look for the possibility in your
> device's "connection manager" if it has one.
>
> When mobile and using gprs;
>
> Set home page to about:blank or local file
>
> know what pages auto refresh and either avoid them, or move off of those
> pages when finished.
>
> don't hesitate to use the stop button.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Good advice, but a lot of work! One of the reasons I use T-Mobile as my
phone carrier is that they only charge $6/month for unlimited data, and
tend to look the other way if you use a smartphone with the "dumbphone"
data plan. (Though they did just drop the smartphone rate to $20, and that
includes unlimited WiFi access at T-Mo's "Hotspots" in airports, Starbucks,
Kinkos, bookstores, etc.)

In addition, unlike AT&T, T-Mo still supports CSD, (9.6k dialup) so you
could actually use data for "free" (albeit slowly) out of your voice
minutes (or free nights/weekends) without a data plan.

doofy · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 06 Feb 2008 19:17:21 -0800 doofy wrote:
>
>> I don't talk on the phone much, but like the ability to use a pda, gps,
>> view traffic patterns, etc.
>>
>> Are there inexpensive plans where I can get web access on a pda,
>> and not pay phone plans?
>
> Telling us what country you're in might help, but I'll assume US, because
> that's the one I live in and am familiar with.
>
> Data-only plans? Yes. Inexpensive? No.
>
> Most, if not all, US carriers will sell data-only plans for PDA devices,
> but they run $50-80/month depending on carrier.
>
> AT&T offers prepaid data, but it's $10/MB, and one good cross-town trip
> with Google Maps or Windows Live Search can use a megabyte!
>
> Ironically, voice service with unlimited data added on is often no more
> expensive than data alone. T-Mobile, for example, sells standalone data
> for $50, but sells a 300 voice minutes/month for $30, with unlimited data
> $20 extra!
>
>> And get decent coverage? I'm not sure Wi-Fi access is going to cut
>> it when traveling the highways.
>
>
> I'm sure; it won't!
>
>> I guess I could just get a gps for the car, and not have to pay monthly
> fees, but don't know if that will give me traffic patterns.
>
> Many do. I bought my wife a Navizon 2100 car GPS unit from Staples on
> "Black Friday" for $100 that receives traffic wirelessly for free.
>
>

I'm in the US.

I'm kinda sorta considering the Verizon InPulse plan.

..99/day for data access (only for days accessed)
2.99/day for VNavigator (only for days accessed) This is their GPS stuff.
..99/day for voice access (only for days accessed).
..10/minute voice charges.

LG enV phone.

I did a conservative calc, and this might cost me $30/month.
Then I could just get a pocketPC for personal organizational stuff and
no data access.

Hey Bev, did you create the html page on your pocketpc, or on the net?

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

>> Just curious, Bev, are you using a PPC phone, or tethering a PPC to
a phone via IR or BT?. <<

PPC phone... I no longer travel with a laptop Wink

And, at my age along with the fact that most of my peers are non
techies, I have so little use for a cellphone that I can get away with a
cingular "pay as you go" account using the minimum ($8.33/mo) and the
minutes still roll over Wink

Got a trip coming up which will consume some of the accumulated
minutes... probably half and half talk vs data, but, on this one, expect
the need to look at current weather radar while on the road will be
important.

>> and that includes unlimited WiFi access at T-Mo's "Hotspots" in
airports, Starbucks, Kinkos, bookstores, etc. <<

Good to know... however, gave up on TMobile and other pay for use
hotspots a few years ago... esp since their daily charges were high to
say the least, but, also, I found that when traveling, getting through
their logons managed to consume too much of the time I ended up staying
in a coverage zone... perhaps I should start drinking coffee Wink

>> T-Mo still supports CSD, (9.6k dialup) so you
could actually use data for "free" (albeit slowly) out of your voice
minutes (or free nights/weekends) without a data plan. <<

It may be coming back Wink

Seems Cingular now offers it as well for a
fee... not sure if it's a onetime or monthly.

Related to this, Time Warner has (at least "had") a dialup option...
essentially, you downloaded a dun with a login script which was specific
to your broadband account... been a while since I did so, but, would
relate only to accounts with a high number of free minutes, which mine
is not... the $10/mb is actually a bargain on a pay as you go account.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

>> Hey Bev, did you create the html page on your pocketpc, or on the
net? <<

Not sure I understand the question.

I originally created the page(s) at
for my own use installed on my
ppc, but posted it on the web so that others could benefit as well. The
page itself was second to deducing the logic of the url's of the
individual radar images under each "button"

As for "created" I do all of my html on a pc then upload. I can edit
the html on the pc, but have only done so when something needs to be
corrected immediately.

fwiw, the above page was created with the mozilla suite composer and the
client side map code created with MapEdit
The mozilla composer is available
standalone from

hth,
Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

>> verizon <<

does verizon still use cdma? If so, that might be a consideration in
the hardware investment.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

doofy · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
> >> Hey Bev, did you create the html page on your pocketpc, or on the
> net? <<
>
> Not sure I understand the question.
>
> I originally created the page(s) at
> for my own use installed on my
> ppc, but posted it on the web so that others could benefit as well. The
> page itself was second to deducing the logic of the url's of the
> individual radar images under each "button"
>
> As for "created" I do all of my html on a pc then upload. I can edit
> the html on the pc, but have only done so when something needs to be
> corrected immediately.
>

You answered it. I was not concerned with where it was typed in, but
where it resided when used.

doofy · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
> >> verizon <<
>
> does verizon still use cdma? If so, that might be a consideration in
> the hardware investment.
>

I seem to remember seeing CDMA on the spec sheet for the phone I'm
looking at. But, I'm so new to this, I don't know what all the jargon
means.

Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/Mo · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 6700

>> where it resided when used <<

Your question is valid...

downloading the two html pages and map gif to the ppc and running it
from local storage would save some data costs, but not much, about 40k

All images come from noaa and the loops can be large (i.e. half a meg)
and, therefore expensive at $10/mb.

My page currently uses the local radar loops, and, as a result of this
thread, think I will go back in and look for the option to choose either
static or loop images as the static images are 10% of the loop sizes.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Nina Jarvis · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 2

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:02:30 -0600, "Beverly Howard
[Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:
>
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the radar is off. We have
cloudy skys here with snow showers none of which show on this radar.

Todd Allcock · Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 1029

At 08 Feb 2008 10:35:34 -0600 Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev] wrote:
> >> Just curious, Bev, are you using a PPC phone, or tethering a PPC to a
phone via IR or BT?. <<
>
> PPC phone... I no longer travel with a laptop Wink

Nor do I- I can massage my HTC Wizard into doing most of what a laptop
does, and remote cdesktop access (via LogMeIn.com's free service) seems to
handle the rest.

> And, at my age along with the fact that most of my peers are non
> techies, I have so little use for a cellphone that I can get away with
> a cingular "pay as you go" account using the minimum ($8.33/mo) and
> the minutes still roll over Wink

"Little use for a cellphone?" I thought you were married! Wink

I think my
wife sees cellphones as a stopgap-measure until technology makes husband-
tracking devices affordable.

> Got a trip coming up which will consume some of the accumulated
> minutes... probably half and half talk vs data, but, on this one,
> expect the need to look at current weather radar while on the road
> will be important.

My wife and I use our phones little enough for voice thart I could get by
with prepaid (and did for quite awhile) but ubiquitous connectivity is a
powerful drug. (Yes, I DO need to get out more!) Wink

> >> and that includes unlimited WiFi access at T-Mo's "Hotspots" in
> airports, Starbucks, Kinkos, bookstores, etc. <<
>
> Good to know... however, gave up on TMobile and other pay for use
> hotspots a few years ago... esp since their daily charges were high
> to say the least, but, also, I found that when traveling, getting
> through their logons managed to consume too much of the time I
> ended up staying in a coverage zone... perhaps I should start
> drinking coffee Wink

Agreed- I only mentioned it because it's included at no extra charge in
their smartphone data package. I actually don't have it myself, because I
use T-Mo's "dumbphone" dataplan (a port-limited unlimited e-mail and web-
browsing service, but no streaming audio/video or file downloads > 1MB for
$6/month.) So far, T-Mo has been more than willing to look the other way
concerning smartphones using "dumbphone" plans.

> >> T-Mo still supports CSD, (9.6k dialup) so you
> could actually use data for "free" (albeit slowly) out of your voice
> minutes (or free nights/weekends) without a data plan. <<
>
> It may be coming back Wink

Seems Cingular now offers it as well for a fee...
not sure if it's a onetime or monthly.
>
> csd.html>

Yeah, it's a real YMMV proposition on AT&T- supposedly only old customers
who had it are "grandfathered" and new accounts are disallowed. Just as
with T-Mo, it's for postpaid (monthly) customers only. (T-Mo also
provisions it for free, rather than the $4/month Cingular used to charge me
for it! However, Cingular acted as an ISP- the $4 included access, where T-
Mo doesn't act as a provider- you need to bring your own dialup ISP to the
table.)

> Related to this, Time Warner has (at least "had") a dialup option...
> essentially, you downloaded a dun with a login script which was
> specific to your broadband account... been a while since I did so, but,
> would relate only to accounts with a high number of free minutes,
> which mine is not...

It wouldn't work for you anyway- prepaid accounts are barred from
connection via dialup.

[Long story short- digital cellphones don't actually have "modems" in them-
they just have a method to send/receive data packets to/from the cellular
carrier who makes the actual modem connection for you with a bank of modems
purposed for that at their HQ. That's essentially what CSD, or "Circuit
Switch Data" is- no CSD feature provisioned on the account means no dialup,
and AT&T or T-Mo prepaid accounts don't/can't get CSD.]

For my CSD connections I use a free ISP out of New England (freedialup.org)
since my broadband provider (Qwest) doesn't offer a dialup service for
"roaming." (Ironically Qwest is my local phone company and offers a
perfectly good dialup service, but won't let their DSL customers access it!)

> the $10/mb is actually a bargain on a pay as you
> go account.

A "bargain" in the sense that there's no other practical option for prepaid
users, yes!
I'll do you one better, though, if you have a few bucks to spend foolishly
on eBay. There's a mom-n-pop MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network Operator) called
Page Plus Cellular (www.pagepluscellular.com) that resells Verizon service
cheap. ($0.12/min, $10 cards last 120 days, so refilling costs $2.50/month
compared to your $8 on AT&T.) They sell phones but they'll activate any
old Verizon phone you can scrounge up.

Here's the fun part- while they don't offer data yet (it's been "coming
soon" since last fall) a little loophole in Verizon's network has been
preventing CSD calls from being charged to prepaid customers for probably a
year now. This hole hasn't, apparently, been much of a concern for Verizon
to bother to plug, probably since 99% of Verizon phones sold in the last
four or five years can't do CSD anymore, and the few that can, generally
have no e-mail client and have "crippled" browsers that only navigate
Verizon's "walled garden" of preselected WAP pages.

The "trick" is finding a good, cheap, old Verizon phone that does CSD and
has a good browser, and you guessed it, Windows Mobile to the rescue!
Verizon-branded Samsung i600s (non-touchscreen WM2002/2003 Smartphones) can
be had on eBay for $20-30 shipped, and a PagePlus "activation card" with
100 minutes of airtime are about $4-5 on eBay. (Or $8 from www.uglyeric.com.
Good, helpful chap, so I'll give him a plug- he sells them slightly
cheaper on eBay as well.)

I'd never owned a smartphone before (just PPCs and PPC phones) and I
figured $30 was reasonable for a new toy even if the data loophole gets
plugged soon (besides, I wanted a Verizon-based backup phone for the
glovebox- T-Mo's network isn't the most expansive, and PagePlus is one of
the few prepaids that will roam on ANY compatible network, albeit for an
extra charge. Even without data, the ability to easily sync my contacts to
it gives a WM phone an edge over a garden-variety dumbphone. Plus with
TCPMP installed and a 1GB SD card, it's yet another "It'sNotAPod" device to
keep the kids entertained on long trips.)

If $30 is burning a hole in your backpocketand you decide to take the plunge,
make sure the i600 you buy is a WM2003 model (it was apparently originally
released as a WM2002, then was later upgraded during production without a
model change, like the Dell Axim X5 was. Like most old WM upgrades,
apparently the i600's no longer available anywhere for any cost.)

I've been playing with my i600 since I bought it in November- it syncs with
my free mail2web.com Exchange account, handles my various IMAP accounts
(autosynching ever couple of hours,) runs TCPMP darn well, and runs the
Windows Live Search navigation program to grab directions well (something
you wouldn't want to do at $10/MB!) And, three months later, still has 80-
odd of the original 100 minutes (PagePlus deducts a $0.50/month
"maintainance fee" each month that's eroded 13 minutes of my initial 100
minute balance.)

I figured if nothing else, I needed some WM Smartphone experience to expand
my WM knowledge and MVP-Mobile Devices "street-cred."

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